PMS Root Cause Clues on a Functional Gut Test With Dr. Heather Rhodes | E285

Dr. Heather and I just did something we've never done on this podcast before. Can two hormone practitioners actually guess a client's gut test results just from her symptoms alone?

That's the game we played on this week's episode, and honestly, neither of us knew if we'd end up looking brilliant or completely humbled. We took a real client case, someone newer to us who we barely knew yet, and we called our shots on her labs before opening a single result: just her age, her symptoms, and a peek at how she eats.

Then we pulled up her actual GI-MAP and Full Monty panel live and found out exactly how close we got.

It's part detective game, part science breakdown, part two friends arguing over bacteria names we can barely pronounce. We nerded out for almost forty minutes on one test, and it's one of my favorite episodes we've ever recorded.

Here's what we get into:

• Why a client eating clean, whole foods can still be bloated, exhausted, and moody for a full week before her period
• The gut bacteria and mood connection that had Heather and me both going Wait, say that again
• What a low SigA marker can tell you about immune function, gut lining, and even fertility
• Why a history of constipation is one of the first things we flag before we even look at a test
• How H. pylori and low stomach acid quietly sabotage digestion without you ever knowing it's happening
• Whether our predictions actually matched her real results, or if one of us had to eat some serious words

If you've ever sat there staring at labs that say normal while your body is screaming otherwise, I made this one for you. Normal doesn't mean thriving. It just means you landed somewhere inside a range built for the general population, not built for you.

This client's story is honestly so relatable it's almost funny. She's doing everything "right." Four eggs, good fats, whole foods, eating at home most nights. And she's still dealing with a full week of PMS symptoms before her period even shows up. Low energy. Irritability. Some days that dip into sadness she can't explain. If you've been there, wondering why doing all the right things isn't fixing how you feel, this episode walks through the actual why behind it.

What made this one so fun (and honestly a little vulnerable for both of us) is that Heather and I had to commit to our guesses out loud before we had any idea if we were right. She'd say something like "I think Morganella is going to be high" and I'm sitting there going, nothing crazy, and then we just had to wait and see who got humbled first. Turns out guessing is a lot easier when your name isn't on the test.

We talk through her gut bacteria levels, what butyrate actually does for your mood (it's more connected to how you feel emotionally than people realize), and how low good bacteria can quietly wear down your gut lining without a single obvious symptom pointing you there. We also break down beta-glucuronidase, which sounds intimidating but is really just the marker that tells you whether your body is clearing estrogen properly or pulling it back in for a rerun nobody asked for.

Then there's the SigA conversation, which might be my favorite part of the whole episode. That one marker says so much about whether your immune system has any fight left in it, and it matters even more if you're trying to conceive. We really go there.

What I love most about this episode is the reminder that you don't have to have sixteen different problems to explain why you feel off. A lot of the time it really is one or two things: bile flow, mineral depletion, a gut lining that needs some love, quietly running the whole show behind the scenes. Once you can actually see what's happening, the fix is usually a lot less complicated than you'd expect.

So if you've been staring at your own "normal" results, feeling confused about why your body doesn't feel normal at all, or if you just want to sit in on two practitioners guessing, bickering a little, and geeking out over gut bacteria in real time, hit play.
Guess along with us. See if your gut instinct beats ours.

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Disclaimer: Nothing in this podcast is to be taken as medical advice, please take informed accountability and speak to your provider before making changes to your health routine.

This podcast is for women and moms to learn how to balance hormones naturally in motherhood, to have pain-free periods, increased fertility, to decrease PMS mood swings, and to increase energy without restrictive diet plans. You'll learn how to balance blood sugar, increase progesterone naturally, understand the root cause of estrogen dominance, irregular periods, PCOS, insulin resistance, hormonal acne, post birth-control syndrome, and conceive naturally. We use a pro-metabolic, whole food, root cause approach to functional women's health and focus on truly holistic health and mind-body connection.

If you listen to any of the following shows, we're sure you'll like ours too! 
Pursuit of Wellness with Mari Llewellyn, Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, Found My Fitness with Rhonda Patrick, Just Ingredients Podcast, Wellness Mama, The Dr Josh Axe Show, Are You Menstrual Podcast, The Model Health Show, Grounded Wellness By Primally Pure, Be Well By Kelly Leveque, The Freely Rooted Podcast with Kori Meloy, Simple Farmhouse Life with Lisa Bass

Transcript

00:00:00 Leisha

Hey, welcome back to the podcast.

00:00:03 Leisha

Dr.

00:00:03 Leisha

Heather and I are doing something slightly unhinged that we think is going to be great.

00:00:08 Leisha

And we've never done this and you've never heard us do this.

00:00:11 Leisha

So this is going to be fun all the way around.

00:00:13 Leisha

But we are taking a client result.

00:00:19 Leisha

So we have a client case study.

00:00:21 Leisha

someone that is not super familiar with us, someone that's newer, and we have some of her labs.

00:00:26 Leisha

And so we're going to go through first just her basic picture, her basic symptoms, and we'll tell you what labs we have.

00:00:33 Leisha

And we're essentially going to say what we think these labs are going to show and why based on her symptoms and a little bit of how she's eating.

00:00:42 Leisha

And then we're going to go through the actual lab results and correlate what's happening in her body for you guys to listen to.

00:00:47 Leisha

So welcome, Heather.

00:00:50 Heather

I'm pumped for us to be unhinged today.

00:00:54 Leisha

I literally, we just said, we're like, this episode could be so good or so great.

00:00:59 Leisha

And I think this is going to be the best episode we do.

00:01:02 Leisha

It's summer, really.

00:01:03 Leisha

There's no space for anything other than being unhinged and definitely not planning ahead.

00:01:08 Leisha

So we're excited to do this.

00:01:10 Leisha

Okay, so I'll just introduce the case study.

00:01:14 Leisha

We have someone who is 33 year old, obviously female, and she has two kiddos and they're fairly small.

00:01:22 Leisha

So she's been pregnant, breastfeeding a couple of times in the last couple of years.

00:01:26 Leisha

And she is struggling with low energy, especially around PMS, luteal phase.

00:01:33 Leisha

She has had some constipation.

00:01:36 Leisha

It's better now than it used to be, but still having bloating.

00:01:40 Leisha

So some gut symptoms as well, but a history of kind of always having constipation issues, which that's a big flag for me.

00:01:47 Leisha

I always like to know that.

00:01:49 Leisha

She has had a history of longer cycles, so like 33, 35 day cycles sometimes in the past.

00:01:56 Leisha

more typically around like 31 to 33 lately, but she's actually had a shift where they've been a little bit closer together, around 28 days, and that's when some more accentuated PMS symptoms have come in, when the cycles have actually gotten a little bit shorter, more what we would call normal.

00:02:15 Leisha

these PMS symptoms have come in.

00:02:17 Leisha

And so she's having PMS mood swings for a full week before her period, along with energy symptoms that full week before her period, and especially irritability, sadness, and even some depressive feelings in that week.

00:02:31 Leisha

And then the only other piece that I'm going to share is just having a little bit of trouble with sleep, still being woken up in the night.

00:02:37 Leisha

And so that's obviously another stressor as well.

00:02:41 Leisha

The other piece that

00:02:42 Leisha

we can look at too is that she is eating whole foods, she is eating at home a lot of the time, which most of our clients do start out that way, and we really have to just look at the...

00:02:55 Leisha

the macronutrients, the balance of foods, what they're actually getting in.

00:02:59 Leisha

But she is eating a pretty solid diet.

00:03:01 Leisha

It looks like a lot of times though, she's eating a really good, solid, big breakfast.

00:03:06 Leisha

And when I say a big breakfast, she's eating like four eggs.

00:03:09 Leisha

She's got some fats in there, she's got some carbs in there.

00:03:12 Leisha

And then she is eating kind of a light lunch, which is interesting with that big breakfast.

00:03:18 Leisha

4 eggs and what?

00:03:20 Leisha

eggs cooked in tallow, she said avocado, banana pancakes, and then she's also doing some broth on the side.

00:03:26 Leisha

That was just an example of one breakfast.

00:03:28 Leisha

And then not super hungry for lunch.

00:03:31 Leisha

It sounds like we're not prioritizing lunch as much.

00:03:34 Leisha

And so she'll in that afternoon, she'll have something kind of light and some snacks.

00:03:37 Leisha

And then usually a pretty solid dinner as well.

00:03:41 Leisha

And I really don't have so much context on that.

00:03:43 Leisha

I just have a little bit.

00:03:43 Heather

Do you have anxiety?

00:03:45 Leisha

That's not something that we talked about.

00:03:47 Heather

So constipation without anxiety.

00:03:49 Heather

Okay.

00:03:50 Leisha

I think that it does come up in her luteal face sometimes, but it's not just like a baseline.

00:03:54 Heather

Yeah, okay.

00:03:56 Leisha

I'm gonna let you go first with kind of your guesses.

00:03:59 Leisha

So we have a full Monty iron panel.

00:04:02 Leisha

which is one of our favorites for digging into the iron copper balance, looking at minerals, looking at how that's balanced as a whole.

00:04:10 Leisha

That is a blood test.

00:04:11 Leisha

And then we also have a GI map gut test that we are going to go over.

00:04:15 Leisha

There is more testing that we're doing for this client, but we just wanted to start with what we have because there is a lot that you can learn even from these two tests.

00:04:23 Leisha

And honestly, any more than that would be way too long of a podcast.

00:04:28 Heather

I feel like an HTMA would tell us a little bit more to predict her full Monty, but having the gut test will tell us about the full Monty.

00:04:37 Heather

So if you have a gut test that just comes up a mess, then we know the body's likely going to be doing some crazy stuff with iron because iron is such a strong pathogen feeder.

00:04:49 Heather

And when you have a lot of pathogens in the gut, the body will usually sequester iron.

00:04:56 Heather

And then you're going to have the symptoms of low iron, but then your body is going to have all this higher stuck iron.

00:05:01 Heather

So we'll see, we'll be able to predict iron more based off of her gut panel.

00:05:06 Heather

But here's kind of my thoughts so far.

00:05:10 Heather

Most likely she's got an issue with bile flow.

00:05:12 Heather

It sounds like she has high prostaglandins.

00:05:15 Heather

That constipation makes me think that either her Akkermansia roseburia or how do you say the one that's like Fonzia pernopi?

00:05:26 Heather

Physeum, Physeum proniti.

00:05:28 Leisha

Oh, it's Faecalibacterium.

00:05:30 Heather

That's what I was thinking about.

00:05:31 Heather

Yeah, I would guess one, if not all three of those are too low.

00:05:36 Heather

Does she have bloating or gas or anything?

00:05:38 Leisha

Bloating.

00:05:39 Heather

Possibly have some delcifierobacteria.

00:05:43 Heather

I know what they, I'm not looking at a GI map to read the names right now.

00:05:47 Leisha

We'll just quote you on that one.

00:05:50 Leisha

I know which one you're talking about.

00:05:51 Heather

The methane producers.

00:05:53 Heather

Yeah, Del Sulfo, Vibrio.

00:05:55 Heather

That's not how you say it.

00:05:57 Heather

My guess, Staff and Strep are overgrown.

00:05:59 Heather

Almost everybody is.

00:06:00 Heather

So here's what I think about when I think about the gut.

00:06:02 Heather

You really have these three patterns.

00:06:04 Heather

And so from the information you just told me, I'm trying to figure out which pattern do I think

00:06:10 Heather

she's sitting in.

00:06:12 Heather

And so when I think about those three patterns, I think you have somebody that is iron overloaded, mineral depleted, so everything is stuck and stagnant, so you get a lot of overgrowth.

00:06:22 Heather

And usually with that overgrowth, you have a combination of some of those key

00:06:27 Heather

good bacteria missing, and then the lack of minerals actually stimulating and fueling the gut.

00:06:34 Heather

So I think you'll also start to see some of her good bacteria are getting too high, causing bad bacteria symptoms.

00:06:43 Heather

And then you also could have a picture.

00:06:46 Heather

So when I think about these three patterns,

00:06:48 Heather

you have someone who's depleted.

00:06:50 Heather

So basically because they're depleted, the bacteria in their gut have imbalanced and your good guys aren't getting enough food and your bad guys are getting too much food.

00:07:00 Heather

Then you can have your inflammation based pattern where it's more so like there's a high level of pathogens and just elevated inflammation.

00:07:09 Heather

When you see that, you're going to see more problems with your full monty iron.

00:07:14 Heather

And then I think there's the

00:07:16 Heather

digestive dysfunction, which is where we see more problems with like stomach acid, floating stools, pancreatic and gallbladder issues.

00:07:26 Heather

And that's more where you're getting all these secondary overgrowths lower in the GI tract because

00:07:33 Heather

the digestive markers aren't happening where they need to.

00:07:36 Heather

So this food that should have all of these things extracted from it and should be broken down to a certain point is making it to the lower bacteria without that happening.

00:07:46 Heather

So it's just feeding a bunch of crap.

00:07:48 Heather

Okay, that's my prediction.

00:07:50 Leisha

So which pattern do you think it is?

00:07:52 Leisha

You're just saying like all the patterns.

00:07:53 Heather

Sorry, I think she's probably insufficiency, meaning she's depleted, which means that

00:08:01 Heather

the depleted microbiome, so low levels of herb beneficial or keystone, leading to an immune response and some stuff in stagnancy.

00:08:09 Heather

That's totally blind.

00:08:10 Heather

A hair test would tell me if I'm on the right track.

00:08:13 Heather

Yeah, just to be.

00:08:13 Leisha

Clear, I think I said this, but we have not seen these tests in that we're just, we are predicting what we think we're gonna see.

00:08:20 Heather

Oh, you haven't seen it?

00:08:22 Leisha

No.

00:08:23 Heather

I told you.

00:08:24 Leisha

Okay, so I'll tell you mine now.

00:08:26 Leisha

No, I'm doing this fair.

00:08:28 Leisha

Haven't seen it either.

00:08:29 Heather

I thought I was, I thought this was a test.

00:08:31 Leisha

No, it is a test.

00:08:33 Leisha

It's a test for both of us.

00:08:34 Leisha

So I think based on symptoms specifically,

00:08:39 Leisha

I think that it is going to be a depletion pattern.

00:08:43 Leisha

I think that there will be some low good bacteria, specifically a couple of the ones that you said.

00:08:47 Leisha

I expect Vaecalibacterium to be low, but I actually expect to see a little bit of low overall bacteria because when there is loading, a lot of times there's

00:08:58 Leisha

There's not a butyrate producers, especially when mood is involved.

00:09:02 Leisha

Butyrate is a substance that these good bacteria produce, a short-chain fatty acid that actually helps support neurotransmitters in mood.

00:09:09 Leisha

It also helps support the lining of the gut.

00:09:12 Leisha

And so when we don't see enough of these, there can be low-level inflammation, low-level food sensitivities that are not being

00:09:20 Leisha

I don't honestly need to know what the food sensitivities are most of the time, but I just need to know that the gut lining is compromised and that there can be essentially leaky gut symptoms.

00:09:30 Leisha

So I expect low bacteria.

00:09:31 Leisha

I expect a little bit of overgrowth of a couple of inflammatory bacteria.

00:09:35 Leisha

I definitely expect low immune function in the gut and low digestive enzymes.

00:09:40 Leisha

Those are what I'm expecting to see.

00:09:42 Leisha

I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple pathogenic bacteria.

00:09:45 Leisha

but I expect to see kind of like a low digestive capacity pattern overall.

00:09:49 Leisha

And that includes a low good bacteria because they actually help break down these nutrients and you need certain nutrients to keep feeding them.

00:09:57 Heather

It's really interesting you said the short chain fatty acid part though, because she's eating high good quality fats, but she's having these symptoms

00:10:07 Heather

of low fatty acid production, which actually clicked for me when you said that, like something you and I were just talking about before here, how I was saying that I've noticed this pattern in my own body where I'm having trouble.

00:10:20 Heather

I have an episode on my podcast about what my gut test showed.

00:10:25 Heather

It wasn't good.

00:10:25 Heather

It was awful.

00:10:27 Heather

But we think it was compromised, the test itself.

00:10:29 Leisha

We're still not sure that wasn't your test test.

00:10:31 Heather

We don't even know if it was my test.

00:10:33 Heather

We think they were switched.

00:10:34 Heather

But I've noticed these patterns of like, hey, when I don't take high, high doses of omegas, my skin looks a certain way or my bile flow shifts or something like that.

00:10:43 Heather

I was talking to Alicia earlier about I just literally this weekend used a skincare line that I've never used before, but it's oil-based instead of water-based.

00:10:51 Heather

And I feel like in two days, my skin changed its entire personality.

00:10:55 Heather

And that's how you are with every supplement you take or every ear phone.

00:10:59 Heather

I am so sensitive, but do you know why I'm sensitive to supplements?

00:11:01 Heather

Because I don't think it's the only reason, but one of the reasons is because my DAGM Sig A is so low.

00:11:07 Heather

My immune system is just like, we're sick of fighting things.

00:11:10 Heather

We don't have anything left to fight.

00:11:13 Heather

We're out.

00:11:14 Heather

But that Sig A is also what you said, an indicator of the gut lining, which is where you absorb and make those short chain fatty acids.

00:11:21 Heather

So I say all of this because

00:11:24 Heather

I know for me, my body needs so much oil, lipid-based support because my large lower intestine is not absorbing and making that right.

00:11:34 Heather

And that just connected some dots because I've recently very much realized as much as I had every reason in the world to believe I was the exact opposite of ADHD, I think I'm actually highly ADHD.

00:11:48 Heather

That's a podcast for a different day.

00:11:50 Leisha

I was going to say, this one is not about you, Heather.

00:11:52 Heather

No, I know.

00:11:53 Heather

But what it made me think about is what you were just saying of like, wait, those short chain fatty acids and neurotransmitter production, what a huge link between not just low progesterone and progesterone support, but also that depressive, that ADHD symptoms.

00:12:08 Heather

And there's three basically different types of ADHD, which I think that's also just a blanket term for deeper issues going on like this.

00:12:17 Heather

Your neurotransmitters aren't being produced appropriately.

00:12:19 Heather

They're not being broken down appropriately.

00:12:20 Heather

You're missing the, you know, ingredients to make them balanced.

00:12:24 Heather

So, okay, let's do some rapid fire questions super, super quick I have for you.

00:12:28 Heather

Her symptoms will not be able to predict this for us, but I think it's just fun to see what we think.

00:12:33 Heather

Sig A.

00:12:34 Heather

Do you think Sig A is going to be high, showing her body still has gas in the tank, her immune system is still fighting?

00:12:40 Heather

Or do you think her Sig A is going to be low, meaning she's been fighting this for so long, she's going to be totally bottomed out?

00:12:46 Leisha

I think it's going to be low.

00:12:48 Heather

Okay, I think low too.

00:12:49 Heather

The last case, which is pancreatic enzyme function.

00:12:53 Heather

High, indicating good digestive pancreatic function, low.

00:12:58 Leisha

I'm going to say moderately low.

00:13:00 Heather

I think it'll be normal to high.

00:13:02 Heather

What else?

00:13:03 Heather

H.

00:13:03 Heather

pylori, yes or no?

00:13:05 Leisha

Yes.

00:13:06 Heather

I was going to say no.

00:13:07 Leisha

Okay, we'll see who's right.

00:13:10 Heather

Okay.

00:13:10 Heather

H.

00:13:10 Heather

pylori, you said yes.

00:13:11 Leisha

I don't think excessive H.

00:13:13 Leisha

pylori.

00:13:13 Leisha

I just think low level H.

00:13:14 Leisha

pylori.

00:13:15 Heather

Beta glucoronidase, which is the estrogen metabolism marker.

00:13:18 Leisha

If we were doing a Dutch first, I feel like I would know that better.

00:13:23 Heather

I was going to say if I had an HDMA first, I would know.

00:13:25 Heather

Okay, yeah.

00:13:26 Leisha

So we don't have an HDMA or a Dutch yet on this case.

00:13:29 Leisha

And so

00:13:30 Leisha

If I had to put money on it, I'm gonna say it's not gonna be crazy.

00:13:34 Leisha

I think it's gonna be okay.

00:13:35 Heather

I think it'll be moderate to high.

00:13:37 Leisha

I might not be right.

00:13:38 Leisha

I'm not sure about that one.

00:13:39 Leisha

My gut's a little, little off on that one.

00:13:42 Leisha

I think there might be some, problems there.

00:13:44 Heather

One thing I'll say, I just wanted to share, because I thought about this, and we can guess it for her too, but I had a client come to me and she was describing her symptoms, her gut, her libido, but she was like, my histamine, my histamine, my histamine.

00:13:54 Heather

I was like, I bet this girl is filled with morganella and Klebsiella, the two high histamine producers.

00:14:01 Heather

If you have MCAS, if you have PCOS, there was such a clear picture.

00:14:05 Heather

And we've just did an intensive, so I hadn't worked with her that much.

00:14:09 Heather

We just did an onboard, an intake call.

00:14:11 Heather

She wanted to do a Dutch, and I was like, I think you should do a gut test instead.

00:14:15 Heather

I think these two bacteria are in there.

00:14:17 Heather

And I just did my call with her before this, and those were the exact two bacteria that she was struggling with is overgrown.

00:14:24 Heather

Do you think she will have histamine, high histamine producers?

00:14:28 Heather

Your girl, this case.

00:14:30 Leisha

I'm going to say...

00:14:31 Leisha

Nothing crazy.

00:14:33 Heather

I think, I don't know, I just feel like Morganella might be high for her just because that's what I've been seeing.

00:14:39 Heather

And then even though we don't really have symptoms for that.

00:14:40 Heather

And then my last one is staff and strep overgrowth or not overgrown?

00:14:46 Leisha

I'm going to say slightly above range.

00:14:48 Heather

Yeah, I think so too.

00:14:49 Heather

All right.

00:14:51 Heather

Let's reveal.

00:14:52 Heather

I guess we can do, we'll get to the full Monty after this.

00:14:56 Heather

Yeah, let's do the full Monty after the guy.

00:14:57 Leisha

We won't predict on that.

00:14:59 Leisha

It's a little bit cheating though, if we see the GI map first, Yeah, to.

00:15:02 Heather

Predict a full modity.

00:15:03 Leisha

It'll help.

00:15:04 Leisha

Okay, I'm sharing my screen here, but it's always my worst skill.

00:15:10 Leisha

I think this screen share button.

00:15:12 Heather

Worse things to be worse at.

00:15:14 Leisha

Okay, so.

00:15:16 Leisha

the big reveal.

00:15:17 Leisha

So if you haven't ever seen a GI map before, there is a page on the first page is what I call the big bad bacteria and parasites as well.

00:15:27 Leisha

And they're hospital acquired infections, food poisoning.

00:15:29 Leisha

They mostly show up negative, but you pretty much know if they're there.

00:15:32 Leisha

You're having big symptoms.

00:15:34 Leisha

And so we didn't even talk about that page.

00:15:36 Leisha

We're just going to skip past that page.

00:15:37 Leisha

It is negative.

00:15:38 Leisha

So spoiler.

00:15:40 Leisha

So look at that.

00:15:41 Leisha

The H.

00:15:41 Leisha

pylori just a little bit, not out of range.

00:15:44 Leisha

No, H pylori is fine.

00:15:46 Leisha

So a little bit H pylori.

00:15:47 Heather

H pylori is the thing.

00:15:48 Heather

Sorry.

00:15:49 Heather

I will say, I feel like I saw that and I was like, wait, sometimes when I talk to a client and I can pick up on their processing and their patterns and their personality,

00:16:00 Heather

it can point to more accuracy of like, oh, I definitely think they have.

00:16:04 Heather

I have clients that I can hear kind of like the way they process through things and where their mind goes when certain situations pop up or the way they talk about their body or their spouse or their experience.

00:16:13 Heather

And I am like, I think we got that bacteria and they're overgrown.

00:16:17 Heather

So anyways, I just say that because I wonder if I had talked to her personality wise if I would have made different guesses.

00:16:23 Leisha

Yeah, well, we'll see.

00:16:24 Leisha

We'll see.

00:16:25 Leisha

how we do on this.

00:16:26 Leisha

So just so you girls know, H.

00:16:28 Leisha

pylori is a bacteria that lives primarily in your stomach, but it does migrate down to the gut as well.

00:16:34 Leisha

And it is very common to have some H.

00:16:37 Leisha

pylori.

00:16:37 Leisha

A high percentage of the population has it.

00:16:40 Leisha

I'm always looking to see if it's a problem by looking at other overgrowth.

00:16:44 Leisha

I usually, if it's not out of range, it's usually not a huge issue, but it's just helpful to know that it's there, but it can decrease stomach acid production and it can decrease digestive capacity through that stomach

00:16:55 Leisha

acid production and make it easier to have things like bloating and constipation, but also to have other bacterial overgrowth because the gut is not as strong when the stomach acid is decreased.

00:17:08 Leisha

But that is typically more at higher levels that are out of range.

00:17:11 Leisha

I would call this a negligible finding at this point, unless we see other things that point back to tell us H.

00:17:16 Leisha

pylori is really an issue here.

00:17:18 Heather

I was going to say H.

00:17:19 Heather

pylori will point to iron dysregulation too a ton.

00:17:22 Heather

Like you're not going to have H.

00:17:23 Heather

pylori and then see good ferritin, good iron levels.

00:17:27 Heather

They're either going to be way crazy because of inflammation or they're going to be bottomed out.

00:17:31 Leisha

So when we look at the commensal keystone bacteria, the good bacteria, it looks better than I expected.

00:17:38 Heather

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

00:17:39 Heather

I'm sad.

00:17:40 Heather

Her 3 butyrate producers look.

00:17:42 Leisha

We're happy for her, Heather.

00:17:44 Leisha

We're happy for her.

00:17:46 Heather

Yeah, we're happy for her.

00:17:48 Leisha

I'm sad about myself.

00:17:49 Leisha

Sad about predictions?

00:17:50 Heather

You predicted this, didn't you say she would be low overall on these?

00:17:54 Leisha

I would say I said a little bit low overall and I actually thought faecalibacterium would be a little bit lower and it's actually

00:18:01 Leisha

Decent.

00:18:02 Leisha

Okay, so when we look at this test, there's about 10 bacteria that are tested, and then there's the big families of bacteria, the phyla.

00:18:08 Leisha

And we see for hers that she really does have a lot of them that are kind of in the green range.

00:18:15 Leisha

but still trending towards lower.

00:18:16 Leisha

So even the ones that are green, they're almost to the low side.

00:18:20 Leisha

And then there are a couple that are actually a little bit low.

00:18:22 Leisha

Escherichia is one that I always like to notice when it's on the low side because it is in the same family as E.

00:18:29 Leisha

coli.

00:18:29 Leisha

So it's Escherichia coli.

00:18:31 Leisha

And E.

00:18:32 Leisha

coli is a bacteria that we can see a lot of symptoms with.

00:18:35 Leisha

And when you have low Escherichia species, you can actually be more, what's the word?

00:18:40 Leisha

you could be more likely to not be able to fight off the pathogenic E.

00:18:44 Leisha

coli, which can look like UTIs, and it can be gut infections as well.

00:18:50 Leisha

But I always just think that this is an important one to support for immune function in general.

00:18:54 Heather

So if I had to pick on a GI map, I would say the three most important bacteria I'm looking at are these Akkermansia, Roseburia, say the middle one.

00:19:04 Leisha

Paecalibacterium.

00:19:05 Heather

The Kalibacterium.

00:19:06 Heather

I'm going to be so good saying that from now on.

00:19:08 Heather

When you look at these levels, would you give her butyrate and polyphenols or would you, if I had these levels with her symptoms, I think I probably would.

00:19:18 Heather

What would you do?

00:19:19 Leisha

You know, I always look at the whole test and see what the top priorities are because I always want to do minimum effective dose.

00:19:28 Leisha

So if I have other things that are going to take

00:19:31 Leisha

more amount of things to work on that are more important.

00:19:34 Leisha

I always like to have the whole picture in my head before I start deciding what I am or am not going to add.

00:19:40 Leisha

So I would be kind of on the fence about that at this point.

00:19:43 Heather

I definitely take that approach too.

00:19:45 Heather

But I do like to, when these are low enough, they're gonna feel awful until you get them butyrate on board.

00:19:52 Heather

So what I was thinking of like, do you say butyrate now or butyrate later?

00:19:56 Heather

But let's look at the rest and let's see.

00:19:57 Leisha

Yeah, it's definitely on the edge for me.

00:20:00 Leisha

Any lower, and I would say definitely.

00:20:02 Leisha

So we're kind of different.

00:20:03 Heather

If any of them hit the red, I'm like, you will feel bad until we get this on board for you.

00:20:07 Heather

Or your constipation will continue being a problem.

00:20:09 Heather

And you can't clean up a gut if someone has constipation.

00:20:12 Heather

So that's also a side note.

00:20:13 Heather

If you've done a gut test or you're like, I did a gut test, it didn't work or whatever, and your constipation wasn't highly, highly fixed or supported before you did the killing, likely everything is still there.

00:20:24 Heather

Right.

00:20:24 Heather

I see a lot of clients that don't ever do retest either.

00:20:27 Heather

And I'm like, oh, that's okay.

00:20:28 Heather

But if the symptoms are still there, then they're still.

00:20:32 Leisha

No.

00:20:32 Leisha

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

00:20:34 Leisha

So the bacterial phyla, those are like the families of bacteria.

00:20:37 Leisha

When we look at those overall, both of those are on the low side.

00:20:40 Leisha

Not crazy low, just a little bit below the reference range, but it's still worth noting that they are on the low side, which is kind of that depletion picture that we had talked about that leads to bloating, not really digesting foods quite as well, and then not producing butyrate, which does affect mood for sure.

00:20:56 Leisha

and constipation, like you mentioned.

00:20:58 Leisha

I feel like we're pretty on track so far.

00:21:00 Leisha

Now we're looking at the overgrowth microbes page, and this looks pretty good, pretty clean.

00:21:06 Leisha

No Stafford Strep, no Morganella or Pseudomonas, and those are both really highly inflammatory bacteria.

00:21:14 Leisha

Heather was talking about Morganella before for histamine, and I was leaning towards no on this one.

00:21:19 Leisha

Really nothing is out of range or even really close to out of range on this test, which is

00:21:24 Leisha

a huge blessing because that takes whole other layers of supplements and killing protocols to take care of.

00:21:32 Heather

I do think though that bloating is being, I think this disulfo Vibrio, it's not at range yet, but that's higher than I would normally see.

00:21:41 Heather

So I would still think there's possibly some methane production leading to the bloating.

00:21:46 Heather

Nothing that I'd go in and kill for, but when I see it really above probably that E to the five,

00:21:54 Heather

If there's symptoms, I start thinking like, hey, we're not all the way.

00:21:57 Heather

It's kind of like with thyroid stuff, you know, like how your TSH can be in range and look okay.

00:22:03 Heather

But then if you're symptomatic, it's like, do we just wait for it to get all the way there?

00:22:09 Heather

So what I mean by that is you wouldn't go in and kill, but you might want to feed the competitory

00:22:15 Heather

bacteria that can starve those out a little bit.

00:22:19 Leisha

Yeah, definitely.

00:22:20 Leisha

I agree with that.

00:22:21 Leisha

Okay, so there's some other, there's actually a ton of bacteria on this test that can be inflammatory, but I always do keep an eye on the section that has Citrobacter, Klebsiella, Proteus, because they are super inflammatory and can be related to autoimmunity.

00:22:36 Leisha

And these are all totally clean.

00:22:38 Leisha

So I was glad to see that as well.

00:22:39 Heather

Non-detected.

00:22:41 Leisha

Right.

00:22:41 Leisha

So yeah, it says less than DL, which means not detectable.

00:22:44 Leisha

There's also

00:22:45 Leisha

nothing showing up for Candida or any other fungi or yeast, which is great news.

00:22:50 Leisha

I find that those sometimes do hide out and sometimes I'll see them on a retest when I don't see them on the first test.

00:22:56 Leisha

I'm not suspecting Candida necessarily in this case, but a clean Candida, I'm always still a little hesitant to say it's not hiding somewhere, but it doesn't always show up.

00:23:08 Leisha

Do you have thoughts on that?

00:23:10 Heather

Yeah, I mean, if there's H.

00:23:11 Heather

pylori,

00:23:13 Heather

I would think that it would be hiding in a biofilm somewhere.

00:23:16 Heather

So could be in there hiding in that way, but usually it's with some other guys.

00:23:23 Leisha

I would agree.

00:23:24 Leisha

Okay, and then we're on the last page now that has parasites, big, big parasites especially, and worms.

00:23:31 Leisha

Totally negative on all of those things.

00:23:33 Leisha

My thoughts on parasites on a GI map are I do see them sometimes.

00:23:38 Leisha

I don't see them a lot of times, and that doesn't always convince me.

00:23:41 Leisha

I love a GI map, guys.

00:23:43 Leisha

This is the tried and true test that I've been doing my entire practice.

00:23:46 Leisha

I do love a GI map, and any test is going to have its limits.

00:23:50 Leisha

And so I'm not always convinced that there's not parasites if we have constipation, gas, and bloating, especially like inflammatory symptoms or signs of inflammation in the gut.

00:24:01 Leisha

And especially if we work on a gut protocol and we don't see all of those results that we want to see, sometimes I'm still going to consider parasites as a piece of the puzzle because they're a little bit hard to catch on a test, and there are more parasites than they can test for on this test.

00:24:17 Leisha

I think they test for 10 total, and they're the ones that are the most common, the most cause of issues in the body, that kind of thing, but you still can't catch 'em all.

00:24:26 Heather

Yeah, I was going to say a GI map is a threshold that's pretty high in terms of parasitic stuff.

00:24:34 Heather

I think I was reading that a gut zoomer, there's another one that can sometimes be a little bit more sensitive.

00:24:40 Heather

And then you have your parasite specific testing.

00:24:44 Heather

I think if somebody's never done a parasite cleanse or never thought about parasites, I wouldn't take this and be like, oh, I'm parasite free.

00:24:53 Heather

You all have parasites.

00:24:54 Heather

We all have parasites.

00:24:56 Leisha

Exactly.

00:24:57 Leisha

I think that's really the point that we're trying to make is like.

00:25:00 Heather

They're repeating.

00:25:01 Heather

There was something I was gonna say unique and I don't know what it was, so.

00:25:04 Leisha

Maybe we'll think of it later.

00:25:05 Leisha

Okay, so that looks good.

00:25:06 Leisha

And then truly my favorite part of this test is the intestinal health markers because I feel like it gives me a really good overview and confirmation of what we've already seen.

00:25:15 Leisha

And this looks fairly similar to what I thought it would actually.

00:25:19 Leisha

So I can walk us through this part too.

00:25:21 Leisha

So the intestinal health markers, the first one is sciatica, which is a measure of fat absorption.

00:25:26 Leisha

I see this normal most of the time.

00:25:29 Leisha

I don't think this means that you don't have any liver issues, any bile flow issues, that all your fats are being digested perfectly all the time, but it's a percentage of fat, undigested fat in the stool.

00:25:40 Leisha

And so it looks fine.

00:25:41 Leisha

That one's totally fine and does typically show up normal.

00:25:44 Leisha

I still think that supporting bile flow is often really important.

00:25:47 Leisha

I think that it is still important in this case, which is not just about fat digestion either.

00:25:52 Leisha

Elastase is a pancreatic enzyme that we look at to see how much pancreatic enzyme is being produced to help break down foods.

00:26:01 Leisha

And this is right in the middle where I thought it would be honestly moderately low.

00:26:06 Leisha

It's not crazy low, but it's moderately low.

00:26:09 Leisha

And so

00:26:10 Leisha

Sometimes that does line up with H.

00:26:11 Leisha

pylori.

00:26:12 Leisha

I see that kind of in combination with each other when stomach acid is potentially compromised.

00:26:16 Leisha

Pancreatic enzymes can be as well.

00:26:18 Leisha

This can be from several things, but one thing that I want to mention is that even if you're just running around while you eat, not chewing your food, your brain is not getting the signal to make this and not telling your body,

00:26:31 Leisha

hey, it's time to eat, we're eating.

00:26:33 Leisha

That in and of itself can make it low.

00:26:35 Leisha

There are other things that can make it low as well, but that's one that I think most of us are guilty of.

00:26:39 Leisha

So we can actually raise this and support digestion better.

00:26:43 Leisha

A lot of times we will support with supplementation still for sure, but I'm making it sound like it's a little bit easier to fix than it is, but definitely it's worse when you're running around in circles while you're eating and not thinking about your food, not chewing your food.

00:26:56 Heather

I think an important one there too is that it's showing pancreatic function, but it can be correlated.

00:27:02 Heather

So causes for low elastase can be correlated with gallstones too.

00:27:07 Heather

Or if you have had your gallbladder removed, as well as vegan, vegetarian diets.

00:27:12 Heather

And then the reason it can correlate with that H.

00:27:15 Heather

pylori is because of the low stomach acid.

00:27:17 Heather

But sometimes I see someone who doesn't have H.

00:27:20 Heather

pylori, but they actually oftentimes.

00:27:23 Heather

I see clients that don't have H.

00:27:25 Heather

pylori, but they still need stomach acid support.

00:27:28 Heather

And usually we do that alongside of enzymes.

00:27:31 Heather

I typically will look at anytime they're under 500, I think.

00:27:36 Leisha

Yeah, so this is 367, just for reference.

00:27:40 Heather

I agree.

00:27:40 Heather

They might benefit from additional support there.

00:27:43 Heather

But what I was going to say about that is that has the steatocrit and the elastase have that correlation of bile flow.

00:27:50 Heather

And then looking at her beta-glucuronidase, which is your estrogen, it's an enzyme produced in the gut that is used for eliminating estrogen.

00:28:00 Heather

And so that can be a big marker for hormone and toxin clearance.

00:28:06 Heather

When I was listening to her symptoms, I would have suspected that to be higher than it is.

00:28:12 Heather

And since it's not, I'm thinking, oh, then she probably needs bile support from the liver.

00:28:17 Heather

So the liver,

00:28:19 Heather

breaks down the first part of estrogen, marks it for elimination, and then it goes into the bile to then the gut.

00:28:27 Heather

It should leave in the gut bacteria, but when the bake glucuronidase is high, it will pull that estrogen back in and you'll have these symptoms of higher estrogen, whether your actual estrogen production is high or not.

00:28:43 Heather

It's this reabsorption cycle.

00:28:45 Heather

So hers, typically you want it under 2,000,

00:28:49 Heather

Hers is 800.

00:28:50 Heather

So it's actually in a really good range.

00:28:52 Heather

I've actually been seeing two lately on some of my clients, especially my PCOS clients that are ovulating later.

00:28:59 Heather

So when you were saying she was having these 38 day cycles,

00:29:03 Heather

that sometimes I can see either or.

00:29:06 Heather

So sometimes I'll see really high beta glucuronidase, which means they're just absorbing estrogen and that's shifting this feedback loop.

00:29:13 Heather

But sometimes on a lot of my PCOS clients lately, I've been seeing really low beta glucuronidase.

00:29:18 Heather

And so when it's under 500, I'm seeing that it's typically with clients that aren't ovulating the first attempt.

00:29:24 Heather

So they're having more of that PCOS picture, which again is pointing me to when I see the symptoms, but a good or low beta glucuronidase, it's like screaming

00:29:33 Heather

liver, liver, bile, bile, which this picture supports.

00:29:38 Leisha

Yeah.

00:29:38 Leisha

Another thing just to note for those of you who are still nerding out with us over here, B-glucuronidase does relate to estrogen most of the time, and it can also be high when there are certain overgrowth bacteria that can trigger that same pathway or a similar pathway to make this high.

00:29:56 Leisha

So there are two different things I'm always looking for with that.

00:29:58 Leisha

And if I see overgrowth, there probably is an estrogen issue as well.

00:30:02 Leisha

And

00:30:03 Leisha

It's just helpful to know that there may be something else that needs to be done to bring it down too.

00:30:07 Leisha

So the next marker is occult blood, which is hidden blood in the stool.

00:30:10 Leisha

That's totally normal, which is great.

00:30:11 Leisha

I never like to see that one.

00:30:13 Leisha

The biggest thing that we started talking about at the beginning was SIGA, which is secretory IgA.

00:30:18 Leisha

And that is a marker of immune function in the gut and of gut lining function and so important for multiple different layers of things in the body.

00:30:30 Leisha

You were telling me some interesting things about SIGA lately.

00:30:32 Leisha

So tell me some thoughts

00:30:33 Leisha

on the CGA.

00:30:33 Leisha

So it is low.

00:30:34 Leisha

It's almost to the red.

00:30:35 Leisha

It's in the yellow.

00:30:36 Leisha

Our range is like 510 to 2000, essentially, and hers is 539.

00:30:41 Leisha

So it is lower than I like to see.

00:30:43 Leisha

I've been seeing some down in the 200s lately, so I'm glad it's not that low.

00:30:47 Leisha

Minus 280.

00:30:49 Leisha

Yeah, I know.

00:30:50 Heather

220, something like that.

00:30:51 Heather

Yeah, so Sig A has a couple of different things.

00:30:55 Heather

It is a marker of your mucosal immune system, and that is so super important for your lower large intestine, which is where you have a lot of absorption and production of those short chain fatty acids.

00:31:09 Heather

So Sig A is also showing us your immune response.

00:31:14 Heather

And you can have either or.

00:31:15 Heather

So when SigA is super high, that can mean the immune system is actively fighting and there's a threat that it's responding to.

00:31:23 Heather

So then you're looking at, okay, pathogens, parasites, overgrowth, food reactions.

00:31:27 Heather

A high SigA with a stool test that shows barely anything does make me think food sensitivities.

00:31:36 Heather

I don't typically go that route, but if you ever saw a clean GI map, but they just have this crazy high SigA,

00:31:42 Heather

it can sometimes point to that.

00:31:44 Heather

A normal Sig-A just means there's a healthy immune response.

00:31:47 Heather

The body should respond great.

00:31:49 Heather

The mucosa is ready for you to go in and clean up whatever you need to clean up.

00:31:53 Heather

But a low Sig-A just means the body can't even mount a proper defense against pathogens.

00:31:59 Heather

So it's more common in someone that is sympathetically dominant, meaning like stress, adrenal, cortisol is kind of the line they shift to.

00:32:09 Heather

Any type of autoimmunity or prolonged dysregulation

00:32:12 Heather

or chronic stress is likely going to be why somebody would have this bottomed out SIGA, which I see again a lot.

00:32:20 Heather

I typically see low SIGA too with people that have symptoms that are kind of correlated with leaky gut.

00:32:28 Heather

And the big thing too, infertility, it's important because it's that mucosal layer.

00:32:33 Heather

and your urogenital tract is literally beside your gut.

00:32:37 Heather

So when we see a SIGA that's under 500, that's a big red flag for implantation.

00:32:42 Heather

If someone comes to me and they've had multiple miscarriages or they're having trouble conceiving and other things are checking out, one of the first things I'm thinking is we've got to get that SIGA up and not just, oh, let's get it up just to get it up, but

00:32:56 Heather

It's saying, let's clean up why it's low, let's fix why it's low, and let's rebuild it, because we need that Sig-A to be over 500 to know that the mucosal layer in that uterine wall, that uterine lining, is getting adequate support, adequate oxygenation, and not fighting this immune response.

00:33:15 Heather

Because you have to remember that another human's DNA is something that will trigger an immune response, but when you make adequate progesterone, you calm that down.

00:33:25 Heather

which is why enough progesterone is so important when you're trying to conceive.

00:33:28 Heather

But this is another piece to that puzzle.

00:33:31 Heather

So I really like rebuilding the Sig A in that.

00:33:35 Heather

And then I'll hit, you want me to hit calprotectin and then let me hit it.

00:33:38 Heather

And then I want to hear what your thoughts on calprotectin are.

00:33:41 Heather

So calprotectin, so I skipped, sorry, we have the anti-gliadin IGA, which is a gluten response.

00:33:48 Heather

And so the way I look at it is anything above 60 tells me they're being reactive to gluten.

00:33:52 Heather

So

00:33:53 Heather

She's at a 58 with a lower sage, which tells me gluten could be creating an issue there.

00:34:00 Heather

But I'm definitely one that like, listen, I don't like gluten.

00:34:04 Heather

I don't think it's great for any of us.

00:34:06 Heather

I think it's inflammatory.

00:34:07 Heather

I think it causes problems.

00:34:09 Heather

And I also think that eating gluten-free is a big commitment.

00:34:12 Heather

And so you've got to be ready to do it if you're going to do it.

00:34:16 Heather

And I've personally found it annoying.

00:34:18 Heather

So that's just my own personal purpose.

00:34:20 Heather

preference there.

00:34:21 Heather

I'll try to minimize it as I can, but yeah, it's annoying.

00:34:24 Heather

So this calprotectin is a protein that's released by white blood cells.

00:34:28 Heather

So when white blood cells come into the gut mucosa, you'll see that calprotectin increase on the stool test.

00:34:35 Heather

And so this is a hard, fast line that is showing you if there is inflammation at the tissue level of the gut.

00:34:43 Heather

So is the actual gut tissue

00:34:46 Heather

inflamed.

00:34:47 Heather

Normal range is going to be under 50, but 50 to 100 means like, hey, there's some mild inflammation.

00:34:53 Heather

There could be an infection that's transient, so like a short-term infection.

00:34:58 Heather

And then when you get higher to 100, 200, sometimes up to 500, you're looking at inflammatory bowel and lots of inflammation in the actual tissues.

00:35:07 Heather

themselves.

00:35:08 Heather

One of the bigger things with calprotectin that I think about too is that NSAIDs, so like ibuprofen, naproxen, lots of pain relievers that work in this specific way will directly damage the gut lining tissue.

00:35:21 Heather

So you can see that calprotectin high.

00:35:24 Heather

So anytime I see that, I start to ask about the use of those types of medications.

00:35:29 Heather

But a lot of times, I think, to me with most of my clients,

00:35:34 Heather

It looks pretty normal unless I know we've got a big autoimmune situation.

00:35:39 Heather

And then I'll almost always see that because that just means the immune system has damaged the tissue so much that you're seeing that reflected there.

00:35:47 Leisha

I think that seeing this calprotectin at 98, it's higher than I'd like to see, but I think it directly comes back to essentially the low good bacteria and not being able to protect the gut lining.

00:35:59 Leisha

That's really what I come back to.

00:36:01 Leisha

And I love this because instead of having 16 problems, we have a

00:36:06 Leisha

essentially one or two focus areas that we are working on rebuilding immunity, rebuilding the bacteria that need to be balanced to be able to feed the mucosal lining, and then inflammation should decrease from there.

00:36:19 Leisha

So I really love that there's not a lot of other issues that we have and we can support bioflow, we can support building up the mucosa, we can support building those good bacteria and making sure to feed them as well.

00:36:30 Leisha

That's all really important for me.

00:36:31 Leisha

So I'll be working

00:36:33 Leisha

on food-based ways to support and build those good bacteria as well as supplementation, but really working on the health of the gut lining and bile flow and making sure the detoxification is happening well as well as digestion.

00:36:47 Leisha

So there's like several different layers there, but in the grand scheme of things, I love this test because

00:36:54 Leisha

There are things to work on.

00:36:55 Leisha

There are reasons for the gas and bloating.

00:36:57 Leisha

There are reasons for even the energy symptoms.

00:36:59 Leisha

And it's nothing that's going to take us six months of protocol to deal with.

00:37:03 Leisha

And so for me, that's such a happy medium where we found some answers, but nothing super crazy.

00:37:08 Leisha

And clearly, we did not know how long it would take us to go over one test.

00:37:13 Leisha

So we're going to save a full Monty for another day, or we'll come back and we'll do a full Monty on someone another day, blind react.

00:37:19 Heather

That'll be fun.

00:37:20 Heather

Because my biggest thing for her, when I look at this picture for this client, I would suspect minerals.

00:37:25 Heather

And I'm thinking, okay, lifestyle stuff with food.

00:37:29 Heather

And then when I'm like, why would her gut, even though her gut looks really good, why would it look like this?

00:37:33 Heather

And what do we do to keep it this clean and to keep it cleaner moving forward?

00:37:37 Heather

And it's exactly what you said.

00:37:38 Heather

Bile acid support.

00:37:39 Heather

And to me, this looks like someone who is depleted and lifestyle and minerals would shake this right up and put her in a good place to maintain.

00:37:47 Heather

And what that also tells me when I see a gut

00:37:49 Heather

looks like this.

00:37:51 Heather

I think the bloating and the constipation are definitely correlated, but I also think is the constipation and the bile flow and some of these symptoms going to be more related again to minerals and her energy bank account, which is great because then you can do more with lifestyle and minerals and those are ideal.

00:38:10 Heather

I would rather do that stuff than come in and have to clean up a gut, which.

00:38:14 Leisha

Absolutely.

00:38:15 Leisha

It can take work to do.

00:38:17 Leisha

And yeah, this is very much in context of this is my GI map cap.

00:38:21 Leisha

And then I go to the next test and be able to pull everything together.

00:38:24 Leisha

I totally agree with you on the minerals.

00:38:26 Heather

But I think you had more accurate predictions.

00:38:29 Heather

I think they were close.

00:38:30 Leisha

Well, but to be fair, I did talk to her and you didn't.

00:38:33 Leisha

And so next time we'll do one of yours and we'll see what happens because I feel like a lot of my answers really did just come from my gut of what I'm seeing for her.

00:38:43 Heather

That there's a lot there, which is why it's so important to have a coach.

00:38:46 Heather

I think that takes us full circle, right?

00:38:48 Heather

Is that like, you could look at any ChatGPT, do this or do that, or even if you put in these symptoms of just constipation, bloating, et cetera.

00:38:55 Heather

But when you have somebody that can pull all the pieces together, including thought patterns and whether your nervous system is in sympathetic dominance or not, it's so much easier because you're going to get these precise, intentional, but very accurate to you ways of shifting things.

00:39:10 Heather

And then you're seeing healing on all these

00:39:13 Heather

deeper layers.

00:39:14 Leisha

I totally agree.

00:39:15 Leisha

Thank you for doing this with me.

00:39:16 Leisha

This was fun.

00:39:17 Leisha

I definitely want to.

00:39:17 Heather

Thanks for having me.

00:39:18 Leisha

So girls, tell us that you love it because we're going to do it again.

00:39:22 Heather

Let us know.

00:39:22 Heather

I hope you do because this is the most fun for us.

00:39:26 Heather

Amazing.

00:39:27 Leisha

All right, we'll see you girls next week.

00:39:29 Leisha

Bye.